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-   -   Reeee.....sur.....rectiooooon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!! (http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=9176)

Strato Sep 28, 2003 12:17 PM
Attention Admins, please move this to comedy cafe.

Page claimarl.

Radium Sep 28, 2003 04:06 PM
@Kaz: Thanks, you have no idea how much it means.

@Infinite: Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccolo
If you really think art is all about perfection, you shouldn't call yourself an artist.
I'm a perfectionist for reasons beyond my control. However, you missed my point. My point is that you should accept criticism as help no matter how insulting and degrading it is, not go fleeing to a sickened place where people would give a ten out of ten to a piece of chewed gum.

Let's look at an analogy; a true one. And you better like it, because I had to surf the net for several hours to find this old stuff. Exactly one year ago, a fairly good artist drew a picture. Three thousand miles away, a very lousy artist one year younger also drew a picture (please don't look, my old crap's so freaky). The better artist, having a comically fragile ego, associated with ultra-friendly Deviants and Side7ers who seem to be perfect replicas of my Deviant.exe. The lousy artist, having a strangely low understanding of the word "emotion", wandered off to Noogy's forum and once even met up with a professional anime artist in real life to endure painful criticism. One year later, what was once the better of the two artists had lived in his own world of perfection for so long and refused criticism (only learning anything new when it was accompanied with a picture of Toca in a bikini), his skill hadn't changed much. The other artist who had been given the opportunity to learn from his mistakes managed to improve at an insane rate and become better than the other artist who was older and initially better. Look how much the younger artist improved, and picture him in another year. Look how much the older one improved, picture him in another year. One of them lived happily ever after, the other was put under the delusion that he lived happily ever after, going to show that attitude and surroundings determine amount of improvement.

Kaz Sep 28, 2003 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
@Kaz: Thanks, you have no idea how much it means.

@Infinite: Agreed.


I'm a perfectionist for reasons beyond my control. However, you missed my point. My point is that you should accept criticism as help no matter how insulting and degrading it is, not go fleeing to a sickened place where people would give a ten out of ten to a piece of chewed gum.

Let's look at an analogy; a true one. And you better like it, because I had to surf the net for several hours to find this old stuff. Exactly one year ago, a fairly good artist drew a picture. Three thousand miles away, a very lousy artist one year younger also drew a picture (please don't look, my old crap's so freaky). The better artist, having a comically fragile ego, associated with ultra-friendly Deviants and Side7ers who seem to be perfect replicas of my Deviant.exe. The lousy artist, having a strangely low understanding of the word "emotion", wandered off to Noogy's forum and once even met up with a professional anime artist in real life to endure painful criticism. One year later, what was once the better of the two artists had lived in his own world of perfection for so long and refused criticism (only learning anything new when it was accompanied with a picture of Toca in a bikini), his skill hadn't changed much. The other artist who had been given the opportunity to learn from his mistakes managed to improve at an insane rate and become better than the other artist who was older and initially better. Look how much the younger artist improved, and picture him in another year. Look how much the older one improved, picture him in another year. One of them lived happily ever after, the other was put under the delusion that he lived happily ever after, going to show that attitude and surroundings determine amount of improvement.

I dunno, maybe it was beucase you didn't critique yourself.

But... yeah, stay away from Dev-Art. And try new things ;p.

Batty Buddy Sep 28, 2003 06:14 PM
Que Passa!!!!

You know, reading through Radiums little analogy, I find it kind of odd at how I myself changed over the course of three years. The thing is, I've always had a policy of having a standerd way of doing everything in my art, and purely out of personal neccesity and opinions on how this and that should look, I now have a definatly different style altogether then I did back when I desplayed my first picture(Jorwell) that you guys saw.(Heck, it was so subtle, it snuck up on me.)
/\:lol:/\

Strato Sep 28, 2003 07:14 PM
I myself greatly improved over a 2 week period. Dunno how that happened. But I'm too lazy to provide a link to any of my art in the first place soo...

Fawriel Sep 29, 2003 08:14 AM
Wow, nice analogy. Impressive what crap you can think up.

As I said, I do accept criticism, but if it sounds insulting, I won't accept it as criticism, but as insults.
Hare's criticism is a perfect "How to criticise"... I especially liked his because he UNDERSTOOD the picture.. he didn't just see shapes and colors (not that there were many to see), he saw what they were. I mean, he even posted music to go with the picture (which I am going to listen to now). Now THAT'S what I call good criticism.

@ Infinite: Funny, I haven't laughed one time in this thread.

EDIT: Oh yes.. and I found out what I've been doing wrong.
I always let my shoulders hang, that's why I thought upper arms reached down to the waist bone.. oops.

Radium Sep 29, 2003 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccolo
I do accept criticism, but if it sounds insulting, I won't accept it as criticism, but as insults.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
My point is that you should accept criticism as help no matter how insulting and degrading it is, not go fleeing to a sickened place where people would give a ten out of ten to a piece of chewed gum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccolo
Hare's criticism is a perfect "How to criticise".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
only learning anything new when it was accompanied with a picture of Toca in a bikini
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccolo
he even posted music to go with the picture
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
I prefer the snowy terrain music from Heroes of Might and Magic 4 for character design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccolo
Now THAT'S what I call good criticism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
Hare said the exact same thing I said and complimented you the same number of times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccolo
I thought upper arms reached down to the waist bone.. oops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
the elbows are about at the top of the hips,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccolo
Impressive what crap you can think up.
Impressive how well you prove me right.

Though you still have no valid argument against my wonderful unbeatable analogy that finally proves the superiority in my strategies.

Fawriel Sep 30, 2003 08:32 AM
Funny how you think any of those were any valid arguments.

Radium Sep 30, 2003 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccolo
Funny how you think any of those were any valid arguments.
I'm actually quite interested in which you found invalid. Please criticize.

Fawriel Sep 30, 2003 11:12 AM
I wonder what we're discussing about anyways-

And if I get a warning for this, whatever. May just as well leave, this community is really getting on my nerves lately... and not only you, Radifoo.

Derby: Abused content removal.

Radium Sep 30, 2003 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccolo
I wonder what we're discussing about anyways-
I was talking to you about how you refuse criticism and facts, instead fleeing to that happy-fun-place. You missed the point and proceeded to defend the happy-fun-place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccolo
And if I get a warning for this, whatever. May just as well leave, this community is really getting on my nerves lately... and not only you, Radifoo.
Me and Xion, I presume. Even though he's gone temorarily... again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccolo
Radifoo.
I'm more widely known as Chaos Hydra. Please make fun of that one.

Derby: Previous quotation edit.

Fawriel Sep 30, 2003 11:21 AM
Argument: You're wrong. You don't know anything. Your knowledge about me is -20%. Have a nice day unver whichever bridge you have to sleep under at night.

No. Xion was acceptable. I didn't care about what he says. Plus, he's temporarily banned.

Now shut it, Chaos Hydrant.

Radium Sep 30, 2003 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccolo
Now shut it, Chaos Hydrant.
*applause*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccolo
Argument: You're wrong. You don't know anything. Your knowledge about me is -20%.
What is this terrible secret of which I have no knowledge yet you use to defend yourself?

I'm actually the only person I know who uses the word "yet".

Fawriel Sep 30, 2003 11:30 AM
Thank you, thank you.

My terrible secret is, *GASP* I HAVE A SOUL! OMGOMOGMOGMOGMGOMGOMG TAHTS ILEGAL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/

Radium Sep 30, 2003 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccolo
I HAVE A SOUL!
Oh my bob, so do I. You're the worst Atheist I know.

Returning to my original point: what was the last time you went seeking professional criticism? There's plenty of artistic forums for that very purpouse, I just prefer Noogy's because it helped me a lot.

Fawriel Sep 30, 2003 11:43 AM
I'm not exactly an atheist anyways.
And you don't have a soul. Cos I say so. That's as intelligent as your accuses.

Last time I was seeking professional criticism was... dunno. I usually ask myself for it.

And if you really think this picture is all I can do, you're so incredibly wrong it hurts.
I'll show you with the piture I'm going to submit to the national manga talent competition...

Radium Sep 30, 2003 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccolo
I'm not exactly an atheist anyways.
And you don't have a soul. Cos I say so. That's as intelligent as your accuses.
I'd quote some famous book here, but you've probably never read it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccolo
Last time I was seeking professional criticism was... dunno. I usually ask myself for it.
You asking yourself for professional criticism is like me asking myself how to be nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccolo
And if you really think this picture is all I can do, you're so incredibly wrong it hurts. I'll show you with the piture I'm going to submit to the national manga talent competition...
You've been saying that for over a year.

Heh, I remember when you posted that thing at Noogy's forum. Someone explained why they didn't like it, you complained about "improfessional criticism" and were never seen again.

Fawriel Sep 30, 2003 12:07 PM
It sounded insulting. Well, EXCUSE ME that I'm not capable of disabling my feelings like YOU.
I was more expecting some guidelines like Hare posted them, some real help I can use for my pictures, not "that and that sucks.".

Radium Sep 30, 2003 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccolo
It sounded insulting. Well, EXCUSE ME that I'm not capable of disabling my feelings like YOU.
I AM SO COOLLLL!!! *cough* in a intelligent, scholarly way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccolo
I was more expecting some guidelines like Hare posted them, some real help I can use for my pictures, not "that and that sucks.".
Well, yes. They usually help a but more than that. But you have to admit, someone can just say something like "the hand looks bad". They'd only have to say "a real hand looks like this" if you replied "omb iv never seen a hand b4!!!!11" to the previous statement.

Why not post this picture there? You already have an account there, and it's not exactly a "post something, get a reply three minutes later" place, since they don't have worthless people like me who sit at a forum 24/7.

Strato Sep 30, 2003 02:58 PM
Ok, now this has become outright retarded. Seriously, you should argue over pms.

Radium Sep 30, 2003 03:18 PM
I just tried, Faw's inbox is full. Did you know he has a livejournal? I was going to make fun of him for it, but I can't find a method to contact him.

Strato Sep 30, 2003 03:28 PM
You could always get a instant messanger service.

Radium Sep 30, 2003 03:31 PM
Never touched one. Don't plan to. Demonic things, or so I hear from my also-equally-paranoid-and-insane friends. Well, I guess they aren't friends.

Fawriel Oct 1, 2003 08:27 AM
Hello, Rad. No. Bye, Rad.

Hare Oct 1, 2003 02:26 PM
That is it!

Derby is the one I always hear about, being the one who always makes those "personal attack" edits, but all he did here was edit some bad words or maybe some overly nasty speaking.

Radium (is being mean) to Faw here, and I don't think faw appreciates it. Sure we all laughed at the previous engagements, but I don't find this one funny. Comedy cafe? This is the type of discussion that is usually closed by a moderator because it got out of hand. But the moderator isn't doing their job. And it isn't all the moderator's fault. Radium and Faw, just let it go.

Derby: Flame tag replacement.

Radium Oct 1, 2003 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hare
Radium is (being mean) to Faw here, and I don't think faw appreciates it. Sure we all laughed at the previous engagements, but I don't find this one funny. Comedy cafe? This is the type of discussion that is usually closed by a moderator because it got out of hand. But the moderator isn't doing their job. And it isn't all the moderator's fault. Radium and Faw, just let it go.
Er, yeah; guess I am getting carried away. It's just that nothing annoys me more than people that refuse to listen to reason... *goes to annoy Xion*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Spaz
Seriously, you should argue over pms.
This is the first time I've ever seen capitalization change the meaning of a sentence.

Derby: Previous quotation edit.

Hare Oct 1, 2003 02:34 PM
Oh! He said you guys should argue over PMs? LOL, I thought he was talking about feminine issues. :roll:

Kaz Oct 1, 2003 02:48 PM
Unfortunately, while Radium's criticism is professional, most of it is just the crap he likes to give people =\. Probably the ratio: 8:1 ratio of crap to decency.

Also, Radium, get some other life than giving Faw crap... it's like your life has been devoted to paying a special attention to him and while that's accepted around here, it's not legal in the US.

Radium Oct 1, 2003 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaz
Unfortunately, while Radium's criticism is professional, most of it is just the crap he likes to give people =\. Probably the ratio: 8:1 ratio of crap to decency
Pfft. Maybe 1:4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaz
Also, Radium, get some other life than giving Faw crap...
I have plenty of life. People just tend not to notice.

Derby Oct 1, 2003 03:50 PM
From this point on, further debating on the off-topic topic will result in certain warnings for violations. Do not refer to it, anymore.

Radium Oct 1, 2003 04:13 PM
I notice a few thing I don't think've been hit yet: I can see the construction for the arms, and they seem a bit thin for figures that muscular. Try looking at how thin your own arms are in comparison to your torso. Their helmets also seem not to have space for their ears or chin. And this is all on topic, nice, and useful. Hello Derby.

Kaz Oct 1, 2003 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
I notice a few thing I don't think've been hit yet: I can see the construction for the arms, and they seem a bit thin for figures that muscular. Try looking at how thin your own arms are in comparison to your torso. Their helmets also seem not to have space for their ears or chin. And this is all on topic, nice, and useful. Hello Derby.
Actually, this whle thing sort of hides behind armor as a shield to proportions. So it could be the torso instead and we can't really say it is so since we don't have x-ray options on here.

Stijn Oct 2, 2003 04:12 AM
Hey lets say you both suck and stop arguing since no one will ever agree to the other.

Coppertop Oct 2, 2003 06:00 AM
Be nice to Faw.

I'm not criticizing anything because Faw's the only one who knows what he intended to draw. While it might not have perfect proportions (look at Picasso's stuff, sells for millions) it's a lot better than some artists that I know IRL can do.

BTW, I like your sexy Siegfried. ;-)

Fawriel Oct 2, 2003 08:29 AM
SIEGFRIED IS A TPOMODEL!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111+D

Well, hm.. you may be righ with the thin arms. Or maybe not.. maybe I've been watching too many animes.. I'll check that next time I get to stand... up.
...what? It's so warm and cozy here....

And thanks, everyone. ^^

Radium Oct 2, 2003 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fl@$h
Hey lets say you both suck and stop arguing since no one will ever agree to the other.
We aren't arguing. Plz read topic thx.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coppertop
look at Picasso's stuff, sells for millions
Actually, I don't believe any of Picasso's work sold until after his death.

Batty Buddy Oct 2, 2003 12:35 PM
Que Passa!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
Actually, I don't believe any of Picasso's work sold until after his death.
I think some of it did... Just not for as much.
(I believe Picasso died sometime around the late 60's, early 70's)

Coppertop Oct 3, 2003 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
Actually, I don't believe any of Picasso's work sold until after his death.
True. Your point? :p


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