Which level(s) would you like to see removed/added to/from the JJ2WC
 

It is possible to have multiple votes here.

It's not a vote, it's a discussion

ILWI?

Ofcource this vote doesn't decide anything, but you can find out what the majority would like.

I like the map pool personally (other than that wretched semi!), however I can see how there will always be good levels which are left out.

For jj2wc2 there was totally new batch of levels made, if I'm not mistaken, but it's a bit too late for a level competition right now.
Evilmike's new level comes to mind for a possible addition, since everybody would have to learn it...

Thing is, seeing as how jj2wc is 2 weeks away, we don't have all the time in the world to decide.
DW and Semi represent the ladder map pool, NA and Zaitox the old jj2wc map pools and Marsh represents an old legendary level pretty neat for 3v3's.
I can see marsh going, as for the rest (even the wretched semi) I think they have proven as successful levels in the previous seasons and in other competitions. NA might be relatively new to a lot of players, but that's also the whole point, to play some levels other than the ones being (over)played today.
JJ2wc2 levelmaking competition was great in the respect that it facilitated the creation of new quality ctf levels, some of which are popular to this day.
Have to say though, have bad memories concerning the 2nd season,as we didn't train in the new levels at all which meant we got our asses kicked by clans who trained for a month at least (correct me if I'm wrong, not sure about the exact length).

I honestly don't know where this is going. I think the mappool is fine, even though I love a few levels you put under 'add' .. I don't really care. I voted all for the hell of it :)

This vote is good. Some levels are too small, like Superconductor. Levels like Golem Landscapes are perfect.

ya but it's good to have a smaller level in there as well.
Shows a diff set of skills maybe.

I have no idea what Golem Landscapes is, but super isn't too small for 3v3

I agree with Laro, also there isn't any symitrical level, except from NA, in the mappool while a lot of people complain about advantages of red or blue.

Hmm..

Never played Nuclear afterblast. It's probably the only map I haven't played out of this mappool...but I'm not really going to vote it out because I don't mind practicing maps that are new to me. As long the flow isn't awquard.

I like The Marshland of Evil...I'll admit it's a bit linear though. And that seek PU boxed room...ugh. But I think it would still be good for 3v3s.

I don't know but super hasn't really appealed to me. I can never get the grasp of it's awquard flow. Never really played it in 3v3s but it isn't my kind of map.

DW...ugh. I'm somewhat decent at this map...but it's still annoying. I don't like the fact the only powerup is seek either. Having seek PU = Win for the most of the part. And that you'd always have to go into that boxed room for the C.

I'm not too fond of Zaitox really. I don't like the base placements. They're just way too easy to defend as the opposing team is forced to take one path. It's an okay-ish map though.

Semi....yawn....overplayed. I must be the one of the few people who tends to avoid this map unless I'm really bored for duels and open for map choice. Lets not forget the unfair blue spawn advantage.

Golem Landscapes...while it does have some unique concepts, it can still be rather annoying with that slow tube. Just for the trivia I never take that path unless I need to get the powerup or a score rush. Actually, that's some advice. And that "secret" shield is such a joke...only one side of the copter (I forgot which one it was) can get it.

Jungles edge. One thing I don't like about this map is that the C can register differently for others, which can officially mess up a strategy thanks to packet loss (it is not all about lag, trust me). I'm not really too fond of those areas below the bases either. It's just too easy to camp there.

Galactic warfare is alright...but it has the same C registering problem as JE (actually, semi kind of has that problem sometimes too). And it's rather linear too.

Medival skyscrapers is an interesting map. Just the seek powerup, turrets (they will always cause airs, so please don't put them into your levels...) and the top, almost always ignored (worthless more like unless you're told not to die) right/left areas kind of put me off a bit.

SBV2. Actually disreguard what I said about here before. I haven't played it enough to experience this "campy crap".

I'm not really too sure what other ideas to put in. Perhaps Evilmike's latest level might be a nice addition. I'm just telling some of the bad points of these levels, that doesn't always mean I hate them completely though.

Remove Marsh, use evilctf24 instead

NA, campy but atleast you can use coins for surprising the campers in the back. If the original version where you can kick through the turrets is used, it could be less campy

Marsh, possibly it's easier to rush to the bottom base than to the top base. The lvl hasn't been played so much that everyone knows how to exploit everything (whatever it might be). I don't like the map that much but it's the kind of semi-popular map that could be fun to have in a mappool

DW (the jjnet edit) is a fun lvl without any color-bias afaik. A con is that it's all about controlling the seek-PU

Zaitox - campy if you play with normal tactics. It's a good map since it challenges ppl to re-invent their teamplay.

semi - balanced if you know how to rf-climb - no surprises

Golem - is that FS' crap lvl which is in ZA perhaps? horrible if so.

JE - very campy and open (=airs) but it's a balanced level, fun for the occasional game-for-fun

GW - my favourite traditional camp-map, the bases are somewhat easier to approach than in sbv2

MS - horrible, only reason one might have to add it, is that it's MS' fav lvl, and MS is cool

Sbv2 - campy crap, if you're rts you can only get hit by air or because the attacker manages to hit you after he stopped blinking


In short:
keep NA, Marsh, DW, zaitox, semi

..and try to find some new fun, balanced, not-campy level to finish things off (elcas ;d)

if superconductor would be dropped (you don't mention at the end Gry) then evilmikeys new level could be fun.


EDIT: oh and for the record i definitely vote for the NA version with the neat 2nd access to the base.

And for the record, most levels should stay IMHO.

@Gry: Stop sticking your nose in my ass. I don't know what turns you on about following me on these forums and having pessimistic comments about it all but its going nowhere. MS has been chosen bij the majority of everyone that voted, perhaps there are more reasons than because it is my favourite level. Yeah, you find almost every map campy, still your opinion about those levels and about how bad camping is shouldn't decide anything. If the majority has another opinion than you, you will just have to accept that.

Well Gry does tend to find a lot of the levels campy - but that's because CC's teamplay and individual quality is SO high, that they could play each and every1 of those levels blind and they know all the sweet spots etc.
I for example never found zaitox to be all that campy. Sure you got the high ground, but thats nothing an attack or 2 cant fix. If gry is up there it might take 3 - still possible though:)

MS is indeed easy to camp because of all the carrots laying around everywhere. So you can kill with a powered up weapon, maybe taking 1 hit in the process and you just take the carrot under the base.

Still, I wouldn't mind seeing MS - but then again I wouldn't mind seeing bblair either, yet it isn't in the pool. Supposedly biased.
Thing is, sooner or later we're gonna have to square on certain levels and it might as well be sooner rather than later.
And no, I'm not saying we shouldn't discuss this topic, but I am saying that we are going to be hard pressed to reach a consensus.

ILWI is definitely a bad choice for 3vs3. I have played several games there and I think that the level is not designed for a 3vs3. The flagholder can camp very easy there and stay alive for ages. It takes always much time to score any point and the games tend to be just boring.
Of course it is a good level, but rather for a 5vs5 or more. I would like to see it in big JDC games, but not in such tournament as JJ2WC.

well

DW - there's one nice gimmick - 1 PU, controlling of that is the important part of the game. It requires also movement skill. (i really like that factor)

Semi - i've played there 100000 times, so there will be no difference if I play one more time.

Marshland - fun level where movement skill is also helpful, there's no reason to remove it.

NA, MS - the routes to bases are so tight, there are also a few campspots. In MS the situation is kinda better because of the flying carrots. Thought I don't dislike these levels, I wouldn't place them in jj2wc.

zaitox, sbv2 - imo these levels are too campy, zaitox - one person camps bottom entrance, second the base and there's an easy rush, ins bv2 it's so easy to rts.

superconductor - the people who say that it's too small probably haven't played any 3v3 here.

neither have I, lol

je - it might be fun thought I've always thought that the carrot spawns too fast

gw - too horizontal-based and linear

Even though MS is perhaps my favourite level ever, I do agree it isn't a great level for JJ2WC. The DDing is EXTREMELY easy in MS.. If 2 stronger clans play against eachother damn you'll have a boring game :confused:

And so far, JE and 'other' are more popular than MS actually is, Sven.

I forgot super completely. Super is a very original fast-paced level and should definitely stay. It's not very campy in my experience, which is nice. And the difficult movement is a sure bonus


It's nothing personal, you just have a bunch of bad opinions that I feel the need to respond too. Don't flatter yourself, I use the "New Posts" function and read everything related to online play :p Your first sentence doesn't seem too idiomatic, but that's fine ofcourse

* 6/14 is not a majority by any definition
* we have no idea who voted for what, if they will play in the tourney and if they represent all clans
* the mappool will not be composed solely based on the popularity of the levels, but also based on criteria (which is something rep+stl should think about and tell us what kind of levels they are looking for)

In my opinion levels should be fast-paced and not very campy (it should be possible to camp a bit, but not sbv2-style where ppl have to try 10 times before they manage to kill the flag off if he stays rts). A level should also not be too open (=airs if there are a lot of seekers in the level (certain areas in JE)) nor too crowded (impossible/very hard to dodge anything (base areas on MS is a good example)).

(y)
What I mean is that if the organizers want a campy level or two in the mappool, I consider zaitox, NA or GW better choices than sbv2 and MS because the bases are somewhat easier to approach. A "camp-free" mappool isn't a bad idea either, though.

Super is a fast paced level... ya I like that part, but you lose me completely when you say that the difficult movement is a bonus!
I have trouble getting around as it is:)
Why do you think I like je?:)

Oh and also, kudos on the maths:)
(haven't checked the numbers, but MS could be a mode, meaning the one option with the most elements in it - which still doesn't make it a majority I know)

I pretty much agree with people who say that ILWI (evilctf24) isn't suited for this mappool. It's designed to be quite slow paced (compared to most levels) in 3vs3. Basically, it's quite easy for the flagholder to stay alive, unless the other team is extremely good, and that's rare. Or to put it another way (a bit simplified), it's much easier to defend than it is to attack. That's all an intended part of the level, but it means that if you want to play to 5, it's going to take a long time.

That means the level is not a good fit compared to everything else mentioned in this thread. It's one of those levels where the more players there are, the better it works.

edit: oh and I should add, if you want to play 3vs3 there, go ahead. I think it does work... it's just that the gameplay isn't really to everyone's tastes.

I remember you calling that level ridiculous after we had just played our first 3vs3 in there. :D

This surprised me. I never noticed that exploit until now. I guess I should have figured it out earlier since now I'm afraid it was Traftoned years ago already. Did you or someone else Trafton that?

Afaik, Seph found it, then he taught it to me during a training (it was before jj2wc2). Then we couldn't resist using it in a training vs. DM, so Bob noticed, reported it, and some evil level maker edited the level

Hehe couldn't resist using it:)

Btw why not let the one with the fault be? Makes it less campy right?

Indeed

It was the entire game, and the complete lack of teamplay on my team's behalf, that I called ridiculous, but thanks for putting my words out of context to make me look like an idiot

sj would say no problem but he is currently busy 2v2ing.

Ah, pardon me then. Honestly I don't see anything idiotic in first hating a level and later liking it though. I just considered your words to be a funny coincidence. :D

Gold-em Landscapes? you just gave me an idea.

LOL I didn't even notice I made that mistake...fail. *goes back to edit*

Also, the 'Medieval' in Medieval Skyscrapers is misspelled. I don't really care though. I got inspired from that typo, and that's enough for me.

Golem Landscapes is worth trying as a 3v3 I think. I played there a few times and it has fun gameplay for sure. Quite a few possible tricks too. Might be a good thing to add in the tournament even.

I liked watchin the 1v1 but I can already see myself sucking there:(

Still sure, why not, but if we put it in the pool, it should be decided as fast as possible. Rep comes back tommorow and we should get any new levels in the pool this week IMO. No sense in delaying.
Also I wouldn't chuck any of the others out, I'd just add this one in.

The mappool will stay the same.

~Mr. Biased-Organizor-Jewish-Conspirator-KURWA-xDDD-Guy

here be the next post of Sven

Idd jewish conspirator is the word!!!

Oh wait.. hehe ups, he's on our team:)

Perhaps MS just wants to be the real supervisor of JJ2WC?

I don't know why you guys think so, but I don't have to say anything anymore.

Probably because you were the one arguing the most and created 2 polls immediately :p. It was just something we noticed.