Though, no offense, but I'm a bit puzzled about what the connection between this comic and your, er, personal issues (for lack of a better word) is. Did I miss something?

Eeeh, it's complicated and boring and stuff. You don't wanna know, trust me.* Just imagine Fawriel as me and Eirru as Rad and you should get the rough idea. A lot of elements I used have some sort of meaning that only I get. Because that's how I roll, apparently!


*Err. Unless you do. In which case, PM me I guess?

Originally Posted by Fawriel

Just imagine Fawriel as me

hard

I know, right. It just boggles the mind!

I'm voting for Radium. Because I liked his punches since I felt they connected well and were easy to follow. He did well with using subtlety and it's really hard to use subtlety well and I admire him for making it through with that.

That's not the only reason I'm voting for him, but I'm also voting for a tie. I think another round would do good - especially to you, Fawriel. You could use more practice. It would also give you a chance to experiment and try out new things.

I'm sorry I have to be blunt on this, but you should really cut back on using excuses to excuse "this is why I couldn't do such and such." and blaming past personal experiences on this. It's not going to help. Looking back at the past and blaming it is not going to get you anywhere with this, nor is it going to solve anything. I'm not a fan of wallowing in personal problems. It will only get you more depressed.

Originally Posted by Fawriel

But then I figured that that kind of plot requires drawing skills and wit. And you were obviously ahead of me in those respects. (Though I may have overestimated your wit. *polite cough*) So I figured the only way I could win was to build a strong world out of the bits you gave me.

Please. If you think you shouldn't try something because someone is better at said thing than you - Then you're not going to get anywhere. You shouldn't be aiming to win. But rather to give yourself a chance to try different things. Doesn't matter if it turns good or not - you tried. Better than not trying at all.

One of the things I really didn't like about your punches is that you threw in a really humongous backstory. Not that I'm against giving information about the character for people to work with - But keep it concise as possible as you can. I honestly really got bored reading the large bubbles of backstory. =| Again, this is my personal opinion.

If this ends in a tie and you two have to endure another round - I suggest you start accepting criticism. I didn't approve of how you turned down someone's criticism twice during the whole battle. If there's one thing I learnt from my personal experience, is that feedback is very important. I wouldn't be where I am right now if I didn't accept criticism. I'm not going to sit back here and pat you on the shoulder - You really ought to learn to accept criticism and stop seeing it as something that's trying to rain on your parade.

Originally Posted by Spotinik

That's not the only reason I'm voting for him, but I'm also voting for a tie. I think another round would do good - especially to you, Fawriel. You could use more practice. It would also give you a chance to experiment and try out new things.

Who says I won't be getting any practice after this?

I'm sorry I have to be blunt on this, but you should really cut back on using excuses to excuse "this is why I couldn't do such and such." and blaming past personal experiences on this. It's not going to help. Looking back at the past and blaming it is not going to get you anywhere with this, nor is it going to solve anything. I'm not a fan of wallowing in personal problems.

I'm not a fan of wallowing in personal problems, either, actually! It kinda sucks, to be honest. But I don't think I really thought that my problems excused anything... Well, some of the time maybe I did. I dunno. This thread has been lasting more than a third of a year. A lot changed in that time. I know I haven't been claiming today that anything justifies my past behaviour. All I can do is try to explain it so people don't get all too pissed at me, and to remind myself of my faults as well.

Please. If you think you shouldn't try something because someone is better at said thing than you - Then you're not going to get anywhere. You shouldn't be aiming to win. But rather to give yourself a chance to try different things. Doesn't matter if it turns good or not - you tried. Better than not trying at all.

It's hard to decide on what you really want to do. I did want to win the battle, and if I had played Radium's game the same way he did, I would've invariably ended up looking like a worse rip-off. And there's the question whether I'd really want to beat him at his own game, because his isn't mine.

And yes, I already said that trying to stuff the backstory in there was stupid. Not to mention doing so in such an unsubtle way. And yes, I know I need to start accepting criticism.

I vote Radium. I liked how he drew Fawriel, kind of like a puppy. I really didn't like how he kept pushing Eirru away to tell some backstory again and again.

Originally Posted by Fawriel

and there's a strong relation there to the fact that I lost my former best friend, who is also watching this battle.

I'm right here. D= You didn't lose me.

Originally Posted by Fawriel

But I don't think I deserve to lose, not only because that would kinda put me back to square one, but because I've really been trying hard to better myself, which is kinda what I've been "battling" for.

This mindset is destroying you as an artist and a human being. Losing this art battle does not put you back to "square one". You would still have all the experience you gained from it. If this was a contest of needless suffering I think everyone would definitely vote for you (or for themselves for having to read all of this), but it's an art battle. We vote for who was the most entertaining and original with their handling of the duel. The winner really doesn't even matter, ideally, since this is for the artists' benefit and the audience's amusement.

I'm voting for Rad. I think that ties the votes, or comes close. You really need to learn some empathy, man.

You don't need to win this battle to become a better artist, the battle itself is what will make you great. Also, you don't have to beat Rad and put him behind you to move on; dropping your resentment toward him would be moving on in itself. And I've been trying to be your friend but it's tricky with you not exactly making such a valiant effort at conversation. It really kind of hurts me to hear you say that we're not friends anymore when I have really tried my best to be nice to you and get back on your good side. If that's really how you see me, as a lost thing never to be recovered, then I don't see why I should bother pulling punches anymore.

You don't know what a friend is. You think they should come to you, and you aren't willing to meet them halfway. You are not such an alluring and fun person to be around that people are going to just walk up and beg to spend time with you, it takes some effort on your part, too. A friend isn't a bottomless tap of positive energy for you to draw from, and everything they say to you won't be exactly what you want to hear. Radium had the potential to be the best friend you ever had, because he genuinely wanted to help you long after everyone else stopped caring, and yet you see him as an enemy. Why don't you consider how he feels, because even though he doesn't spill out every little hardship and sad feeling he has for all the world to see, I assure you he must be getting pretty tired of this crap by now.

Show some class and see this through to the end. Don't whine if you lose, don't gloat if you win. Do your best, learn what you can, take it with you and do better next time. Impress us all.

...

I don't think it's a good idea to vote in order to make a tie. Nobody has officially voted for me yet. And. Stuff.

The rest of this discussion is not something that belongs here. I've irritated enough people with my blabbering already.
I'm going to sleep over this.

Again, they're both awesome, but Faw gets my vote this round.

I second that motion. Faw's not getting enough love D=

Thanks, Torkell.

EDIT: And Pako, too. I appreciate the thought.


Now, everyone who's not interested, just skip this post. Because tell you what, I'm replying now, because there's no way I'm going to be able to sleep at this rate.

Dev. What you say about how I need to improve myself is true. Everything you say about how to live life is true. It works. I'm sure of that. It's a wonderful philosophy.

But Dev, you DO NOT KNOW WHO I AM. And NEITHER does Radium. You guys might think you have some sort of moral high ground. You probably do. I'm unfortunately very emotional and that makes me an unpredictable menace. Sad thing. But what you seem to forget is that YOU TOO ARE HUMAN. You have HUMAN PERSPECTIVES that are just as flawed as any other! You, Dev, had trouble understanding who I am when we were close and talking every day. You saw everything in extremes. And then you developed away from me completely. I have come to accept that. And now, many years later, you claim to be able to tell who I am, after you already couldn't understand me back then. No, Dev. No.
I don't know what you see me as or whether it's in any way an accurate portrayal of what I was like back then. But I know what a friend is. You remember the Finnish guy I wanted you to talk to once? And you couldn't bear talking to him? I've been one of the only things keeping that man alive for years now. I have made a new friend who is completely different from me and rarely likes any of the artwork I produce. We are close friends for more than a year now and I'm constantly listening to him and trying to help him get by in life as best as I can. I have a new friend who is far above me intellectually who enjoys my presence for some reason I can't fathom, and he gives me criticism just as powerful as Radium does, but you know what, it doesn't hurt when he does it, because he's not Radium!

I don't claim to know who Radium is! I have no idea! But, you know, first impressions, human shaping images of humans in their own minds to understand them? Radium is EVIL in my world. I can't HELP it. It's been imprinted like that! I've tried to befriend him! He doesn't DO friends. That's what he told me himself when I offered him my friendship! I will not believe that I am in any way capable of hurting Radium until I have solid proof. For all I know he could be crying right now. But based on what I've experienced of him, no.

I've been trying really hard today to take everything in stride. I've listened to criticism of my art. I've listened to criticism of my personality. I tried to keep my cool and I thought about it. But for (-)(-)(-)(-)'s sake I have a LIMIT.
EVERYTHING I do is colored in your perspective in the colors of that old, whiny (-)(-)(-)(-)(-)(-)(-) of a Fawriel that I'm trying my (-)(-)(-)(-)ing damndest to overcome here. I can't do anything that won't make me seem like it. And that's what I've been dealing with for the past years when I've been communicating with you or Radium. The knowledge that whatever I do, it will be interpreted as weakness. Do you have any idea what I'm talking about here? It's like something from a goddamn Greek tragedy about trying to avoid your fate! You are weak, so you try to act strong, but everyone's still saying you're weak, so you try to act even stronger but you don't know how to be that strong yet and the facade crumbles and then you fall down and everyone's opinion of you is confirmed again! Do you have ANY idea how that is?

OF COURSE I have to get over my hate and regret. It's irrational and it's destroying me, duh! But how do you SUPPOSE I should just STOP those deeply rooted feelings? Sprinkle magic Nietzschean fairy dust on them? That's not how the human psyche WORKS. I have a HORRIBLE mindset that makes me see everything like it's part of a greater story, so I see everything as chapters, and I wait for significant events to cause epiphanies in me. It's HORRIBLE and I have to get rid of it, but I can't just DO THAT. I have to WORK with it for now, and that's how this whole (-)(-)(-)(-)ing MESS came to be. I cannot possibly save my past anymore, so I have to put a lid on it, move somewhere else, start anew, and gather the strength to reform myself and accept what has happened with my newfound strength.

I don't hate you. You are more likely than not a great guy. But right now, I can't help seeing my past in you, and I can't help acting the same way around you as I do with Rad: Trying to be all mature and smart and cool so you don't get a chance to see me as the weakling I was. And failing.
I'll gladly talk to you some after this is over. But you don't have to force yourself to make friends with me again. You are not the man you used to be. And neither am I. We can talk. But we can't build anything on the ground of our past friendship.


I really just want to be free of all these regrets.

You think everything is about you. It's not. You're getting angry and defensive because you know what I said is true.

You say there's no way that you could possibly seem like a decent person in our eyes. You said you've done everything possible to try and seem strong. Funny thing is, you've done everything EXCEPT follow the very simple advice you have been given. You've blown everything out of proportion and you sound like a lunatic, calling Rad "EVIL" and saying I'm putting myself on a moral high ground. All I did was tell you what I think; I'm not the one who's trying everyone's patience. Now you're telling me what you think. Do YOU have the moral high ground now? Is that how it works?

You always say that you seem like a childish person when you talk to either of us. I can tell you exactly why that is: because your logic is so obviously flawed and you are just incapable of admitting it, so when someone points out the massive gaps in your way of thinking you can't defend yourself with a logical argument and resort to calling things evil and wrong without any grounds for your accusations.

Whether or not we "know you" is irrelevant. We know your actions, and that's enough for us to be capable of making criticisms. See? Simple. It's not convoluted circular logic like the kind you're so fond of. Life is not a story, and you are not the main character.

I don't know why I'm bothering with this, though, because you don't care. I'm wrong because I'm not saying what you think. Heaven forbid you might try, just once, to better yourself and see things from our point of view. What are we supposed to think about you? Heart of gold because he doesn't listen to anyone at all? You thanked everyone who said "good job, Faw!" but didn't thank Rad for his much more useful and insightful criticisms which he obviously spent a long time writing and put much thought into. I wouldn't have even bothered to hyperlink you to sources like he did.

And don't just post some big sarcastic response where you pretend to agree with everything I said and act like a jerk ("OH, YOU'RE SOOO RIGHT, DEV, I AM A HUGE JERK LOLTHANKS"). Give some thought to my words.

Goddamnit, get over it already.

Originally Posted by Dev

You are not such an alluring and fun person to be around that people are going to just walk up and beg to spend time with you, it takes some effort on your part, too.

Actually, he was once, in my eyes. And that's what I'm wondering about, what in the world happened?

I'm not going to write huge walls of text like you guys, because I don't know what's going on anyway. I only know that Faw deeply believes that to beat Radium is the only way to fix his life. I'm also not that far, intellectually, to really give good advice in this.

Or maybe, I actually am. I might not be able to psychologically analyse behaviour the way you're doing it, I might not be able to understand the problems Faw has, but I know that there's a simple way to fix them:

Just stop and leave it all behind.

No further explanation, find out yourself.

*edit*

I also vote Radium.

LittleFreak... verdammt noch mal, ich versuche es doch! Lies doch bitte was ich geschrieben habe nachdem ich den Comic gepostet habe. Ich habe Radium's Kritik angenommen... zugegeben, ich war ein wenig defensiv. Aber ich habe nichts bestritten. Ich habe mich vor allem aufgeregt, weil er mich persönlich angegriffen hat mit so nem blöden Comic... Vielleicht war das ein wenig kindisch. Und dann kamst du. Was du gesagt hast, tat weh, aber ich hab darüber nachgedacht. Und ich habe gemerkt, wie kindisch ich war. Ich wollte einfach nur noch alles zurücklassen und neu anfangen. Ich wollte alles akzeptieren. Ich wollte erklären, warum ich mich so dämlich verhalten habe, damit die Leute verstehen und mir verzeihen. Damit ich nochmal von neuem anfangen kann.
Aber wie soll ich denn ruhig bleiben, wenn Dev solche Sachen über mich sagt? Darf ich mich denn nicht verteidigen?

Ich will wirklich nichts lieber als dieses ganze Gejammer und diese ganze Fehde und all das hinter mir zu lassen. Echt. Aber was soll ich tun, wenn einer der Schatten aus meiner Vergangenheit persönlich mich mit genau dem angreift, vor dem ich solche Angst habe?
Bitte versuch, zu verstehen.


Dev... ugh.
I've gone from being angry to being sad to being angry and sad and again, and now I'm just ... exhausted.

Dev, you are childish and stuck in the past. Dev, you don't know what a friend is. Dev, you only get angry because you know what I say is true.

Dev, everything you say might be wrong. I don't even know where to start replying to what you said. But, in general: Everything you say might be wrong. This is a principle I've been living by for the past many years. And judging by the extremes you use in your post, I think it might be a valuable lesson to you.

I guess I'll go through it chronologically.

"You think everything is about you. It's not."
Ah. I really don't know what this has to do with anything or where it comes from, but okay. Is it because the thread has turned into something about me? Because I wouldn't call a thread "everything", and I don't think I wanted it to turn so personal.

"You're getting angry and defensive because you know what I said is true."
How am I supposed to reply to something like this without resorting to sarcasm? You assume things about me, you assume things about what you say. This is just bull and nothing else.

"You say there's no way that you could possibly seem like a decent person in our eyes. You said you've done everything possible to try and seem strong. Funny thing is, you've done everything EXCEPT follow the very simple advice you have been given."
The simple advice in question is basically "accept criticism and don't take it personally", right? If so, that's what I've been trying to do here. I didn't take the criticism leveled against me personally. I only took a personal attack personally, and replied by leveling some of my own criticism against it. Am I not allowed to criticize Radium just as much as he can criticize me?
I'm not sure if I understand what I meant by "trying to seem strong". Allow me to illustrate it.

Rad: "This and this sucks."
Faw: "Oh, okay. ... Iiii had the feeling already. I should have listened to it. I mean, I would have! I mean, I - next time I will! I mean-"
Rad: "Shut up."
Faw: "NO SERIOUSLY I will totally do better next time trust me I can do it pleaaaaaasssseelineäojEDOPJ"

Something like that.

"You've blown everything out of proportion"
Yup.

"you sound like a lunatic, calling Rad "EVIL""
You can't talk about your own psyche without sounding lunatic. I didn't claim Radium was evil, I can only say that my mind is suspicious of everything he says and does because of past experiences with him that have resulted in pain.

"and saying I'm putting myself on a moral high ground."
Either that's what you're doing, or it's what it seems like to me. I mean, look at yourself. You are preaching to me. "You only get angry because you know what I say is true"? That is not something you say to someone you consider on the same level as yourself.

"All I did was tell you what I think; I'm not the one who's trying everyone's patience."
You'll have to forgive me if I won't quietly accept your alknowing criticism of my personality when it's not founded on anything sensible? I'm not trying anyone's patience, either. Nobody who isn't interested has any business reading this bull(-)(-)(-)(-). Hell, I wish I didn't have any business reading this bull(-)(-)(-)(-).

"Now you're telling me what you think. Do YOU have the moral high ground now? Is that how it works?"
No, I have the moral ground where I'm tired of everyone blowing everything I say out of proportion after I've acknowledged that I've been blowing everything they say out of proportion. It's like a comedy routine without the comedy.

"You always say that you seem like a childish person when you talk to either of us. I can tell you exactly why that is: because your logic is so obviously flawed and you are just incapable of admitting it, so when someone points out the massive gaps in your way of thinking you can't defend yourself with a logical argument and resort to calling things evil and wrong without any grounds for your accusations."
I don't call things evil and wrong. I never do. I direct you again at what I said about what I said about Radium. I don't claim he's evil. As far as I know, he's True Neutral. The only time I said anything was evil was when I talked about what my emotions think, and the only person my emotions call evil is Radium. If you want to tell my emotions personally to shut up, then good luck. They're persistent little (-)(-)(-)(-)(-)(-)s.

"Whether or not we "know you" is irrelevant. We know your actions, and that's enough for us to be capable of making criticisms."
Ah, see. This is the part I've been looking forward to. One of the great wisdoms Radium taught me is that "Friends will lie to you". Think about that one for a moment. Friends will lie to you. But what other people say is fair game. Friends will lie to you because they like you. But people who are indifferent towards you, or people who dislike you, or people who hate you, will only say the truth about you.

Hey, guess what? No.

A friend is someone who understands. The opposite of liking someone is hating them. Hate. Hate means to not understand. People fear and hate what they don't understand.

And oh, boy, yes, I'm playing the Nazi card. Because you know what the nazis did? They hated the Jews! Didn't think of them as humans at all! So I suppose the Jews should've taken the Nazis criticism to heart and tried to be a little more human? Hey, you know who else hates people? A homophobes! Them homos with all their buttsex and their corruption of children, amirite? Or those furries with their dicknipples and raping of animals and blasphemy!
Yes, I'm talking in extremes, because I'm running out of options here.

You know how much I know about Radium? I know his actions! I know, for example, that he sought out the forum I'm at now and started defending his points and started linking to places that show me acting stupid. So obviously my criticism that he's purposely trying to create doubt among my new friends about what my "true face" is like, is justified, right? And when he asked myself, before I was leaving, why I thought that he even wanted to win the battle, obviously my idea was justified that he only wanted to hurt me by making it sound like he's not even trying and just playing around with silly little me, is justified, right?
WRONG! IT'S BULL(-)(-)(-)(-). BECAUSE I'M A FLAWED HUMAN BEING WITH A FLAWED PERSPECTIVE INFLUENCED BY EMOTIONS.
AND SO ARE YOU! GET THAT INTO YOUR (-)(-)(-)(-)ING HEAD.

... lost myself there for a moment.

A person is not artwork. You can criticize them all you want. But a painting is a 2-dimensional object that you can see in one view. A person is not.

I don't know if you hate me. But you sure as hell don't respect me. You are incapable of understanding me, as you have just proven. And understanding is all I ask of a friend.
You are not a friend of mine.

"Life is not a story, and you are not the main character."
Life is not a story. I already said that I'm trying to rid myself of this mindset. But if it was a story, I'd be the main character. Because it's my life. And you are the main character of your own life. Yours is a story from a completely different era of mine, and our values don't match.

"I don't know why I'm bothering with this, though, because you don't care. I'm wrong because I'm not saying what you think."
It's always so nice to hear that someone who hasn't known me for several years knows better about what I think than I do myself.

"Heaven forbid you might try, just once, to better yourself and see things from our point of view."
I try to see things from your point of view. I decided that your point of view is not a whole lot clearer than my own.

"You thanked everyone who said "good job, Faw!" but didn't thank Rad for his much more useful and insightful criticisms which he obviously spent a long time writing and put much thought into."
Would Radium have cared if I had said "thank you"? If so, he can tell me himself and I'll honor it next time around. I try to assume a similar mindset to his when I deal with him. He says that if he doesn't criticize something, it's okay. When he's criticizing me, if I don't respond to something, take it as an "okay".

EDIT: I just recalled a point I missed, so I'm just gonna throw it in here.
For a long time, I tried to put up with Radium. That's because of my philosophy. Believe it or not, I always try to respect people's viewpoints. While it's hard to remain objective when it hits me personally (and I do apologize for any criticism I reacted harshly to), I always try to listen to all perspectives. And you know why?
Remember one of the last arguments we had?
Where I told you about my idea that a single truth exists? And you vehemently denied it and got angry? That is the very thing you are trying to teach me about art. There is one definitive world. We all live in it, but our perceptions are incomplete. But if everyone can communicate respectfully, the pieces can be combined, and we can approach completeness. That is the same principle as with art. You have to listen to different viewpoints because they all add a bit of truth to it to make it more complete.
It's the same thing. But you got angry at me.

"And don't just post some big sarcastic response where you pretend to agree with everything I said and act like a jerk ("OH, YOU'RE SOOO RIGHT, DEV, I AM A HUGE JERK LOLTHANKS")."
I've gone from being angry to being sad to being angry and sad and again.
And at no point did it occur to me to act like that. But maybe I should honor your wish so you can tell yourself that you know me? You seem to be so convinced of it after all.


Dev, drop it. I've been trying to drop this (-)(-)(-)(-) the whole time. This stopped being about art long ago. I got the idea. I have to just keep going, respect people's views of my art, consider their points, incorporate them as I deem it right, and keep on going again.
What you are telling me is not about art. You are raging at me because you see in me all the things you hated so much when you left me back then. You are doing exactly what I didn't want and dragging me back into the past. And you're acting just as childish about it as I was acting childish about all my fears of criticism. It doesn't matter that you know about stuff like circular logic and such now. In the end, you're still on a bunny-rabbit forum telling someone you don't know about what a horrible person they are.
Yes, I did lose a friend back then. The Dev who was my bestest friend back then is no more. He's lost forever. You are a different Dev now. And I'm a different Fawriel. If we hadn't had this past together, we could be good friends now. But we are both too damn stupid to get over this old crap.

Drop it. Accept that you don't know everything about me, just like I don't know everything about you. Start looking at how you've been acting. I'm not the only one who thinks you were being hypocritical and speaking in extremes.

Let's drop this crap and move on already. This is getting beyond tiresome.

Aber wie soll ich denn ruhig bleiben, wenn Dev solche Sachen über mich sagt? Darf ich mich denn nicht verteidigen?

Darfst du schon, aber du siehst doch, wozu es führt. Du hast nen riesigen Haufen Text geschrieben, nun wird Dev einen weiteren Haufen Text daneben setzen und das wird so lange weitergehen, bis einer nen Nervenzusammenbruch bekommt und in der Gummizelle endet.

Was ist dir wichtiger? Deine Kunst voranzubringen, im Leben voran zu kommen und letztendlich deinem Traum ein Stück näher zu kommen, oder übers Internet mit einem Kalifornier zu streiten, den du nicht kennst?

Schüttel dich mal, geh ne Runde squaschen, mach irgendwas kaputt und schrei so laut du kannst. Oder was auch immer du tust, um dich abzureagieren. Und wenn du's endlich mal hinbekommst, deinen Kopf freizukriegen (und das wird sicher nicht passieren, indem du diesen sinnlosen Streit weiterführst), dann gehts auch wieder aufwärts.

Dann kann ich dich auch wieder respektieren. Und es ist mir egal, ob du Recht hast, oder Dev. Selbst wenn er sich kindisch benimmt, du tust es auch. Fang lieber bei dir selbst an, denn andere Menschen kann man nicht ändern.

Hmh. Du hast Recht.

PS:

So, I'll try to summarize and end this whole stupidity for everyone now, yes?


At the start, I made an agreement with Radium to duel so we both have a framework that forces us to draw and improve so we can both get better at stuff.
But I realized I'm still under the effect of some relic from the past that makes me afraid of drawing, because drawing was associated with the pain of disappointment. So I told myself that I will not only make this an epic start to a new chapter of Actually Working On My Webcomic, but also the start of a chapter of Leaving That Past Behind So I Can Grow.
Except it didn't go too smoothly. OH CRAP.
And then it kinda turned into a mess about my whole inability to leave the past behind.

And now I've reached the point where I'm gonna leave my past behind because I've realized dwelling in the past is a total drag.

I totally managed to start liking drawing, though, so, err, success?

Okay, so, next round, right? We both draw an ending and have votes?

If the issues are so important you're switching to your native language please take this to another medium than the JCF which is still an international, English forum.

I increased the max character limit for PMs to OVER 9000 recently. I suggest you to make use of this marvel of modern technology.

Righto! Sorry about that. We've already switched mediums, though.

I can't help but get the mental image of Radium reading all the walls of text about him and his only reaction being "D="

*snicker*

Yes, I am hellbent on making every second post in this thread my own. IT IS MINE, MINE ALONE!

I'm gonna take this opportunity to apologize to everyone I've been a jerk to (this time, outside of some stupid wall nobody wants to read).
I can't justify my behaviour. I can only hope to explain it. And ensure that it won't persist. So:

I'm sorry everyone. I hope you can forgive me and believe in my ability to change myself.

Originally Posted by Fawriel

I can't justify my behaviour. I can only hope to explain it

And yet you chastised Radium for sincerely doing the same thing when he said that he doesn't make friends?

What do you mean?

Originally Posted by cooba

I can't help but get the mental image of Radium reading all the walls of text about him and his only reaction being "D="

No, I'm LOL'ing pretty hard. Didn't expect what Faw posted. Can't wait to see Dev's and Dal's reaction to it, though they might not LOL.

Originally Posted by Fawriel

If you insist on fighting it out until the end, here's the alternative: If the winner isn't clear by the end of this voting round, we'll both submit our own endings and then people vote for which one they prefer.

The more diplomatic wording would've been "here an alternative", given that we agreed on rules beforehand and you just want to change them because it got hard.

Originally Posted by Fawriel

I could agree to this if I wasn't also getting bored with it all. The story is getting nowhere. From a plot perspective, my last punch already hit the climax. After this, there can only be a strong finisher and a denouement.

There was no climax yet. Just Faw doing progressively flashier things. I think there's plenty of room to continue it.

First I want to respond to this, since it kind of sets the occasion:

Originally Posted by Fawriel

you got every single possible thing about Fawriel wrong in your last comic. You can come up with all the fancy words in the world to describe her, but if your idea of Fawriel is nothing but "stupid manga-type guy who talks a lot", then the antithesis to that is nothing more than "not-manga type girl who doesn't talk much". [...]
Hell, I helped you with Fawriel's characterization in a PM. He's an entertainer who wants to go out into the world and be awesome. I show that in his dream-world at the start. He's been inside a capsule underground for a long time watching the world from a distance. He's basically like a kid whose knowledge of the world comes completely from reading adventure stories. He challenged Eirru in order to prove his worth, and wanted to do so in a way that shows just how awesome he is (and got really damn pissed when it just refused to work).
Yet all I see in your characterization of him is "Fawriel is an arrogant idiot who talks about himself a lot (and that is funny)".

I tried pretty hard to give Fawriel consistent characterization based off both your PM and his portrayal in the comics. There were conflicts between what you said and how he acted, but I attributed those to just mis-use of words.
Namely, I built Faw's characterization off the premise that he is not wise. He is powerful and probably knowledgeable, but his weakness comes in the fact that he only thinks he's wise.

Fawriel acts powerfully and dramatically, but when it comes down to it he's basically just doing things at will. Anything he does to Eirrukovi could be done equally well to a punching bag; he simply decides what he wants to do and then does it. What's going on around him does not matter, partly why I felt justified making him wipe out the choir girls (they just happened to be standing around Eirru).

Eirru contrasts Faw in that her actions pivot entirely on his. She attacks when he's doing something else, when he's looking the other way, or after distracting him. It's not in her character to charge up some powerful attack she's been hiding; instead, she chooses her actions in the moment based on what is happening. When Fawriel blocks her punch, she hits him with her other hand. When Fawriel announces he has a bomb, she runs. When he begins going ranged, she finds cover and does not approach him until she has a clear shot. Eirrukovi listens and adapts, and that is her strength. She understands Faw better than he does. Of them, she is the wiser.

What happens if it this round of voting ties and it continues another round? Like you said, the story is getting nowhere; eventually you are going to run out of flashy attacks for Faw. But that is where the story gets interesting: what happens then? Fawriel is always pulling tricks out of his sleeve - all Fawriel's tricks come from up his sleeve. All Eirrukovi's tricks are a response to Faw's. What happens when he runs out?

You'll have an easy time continuing this comic another round, if not more - especially if you keep up this pattern of trying to portray yourself through Faw and me through Eirrukovi. Will Faw develop an ability to respond to Eirru's actions rather than simply act on his impulses? Will he develop true wisdom, as opposed to just arbitrarily declaring whenever he thinks he gets it?

That's why I want to see this tie: I think there's an amazing amount of room for Fawriel to evolve as a character.

Oh and I also think the Fawriel character in the comic could evolve too.

EDIT: "I know, for example, that he sought out the forum I'm at now and started defending his points and started linking to places that show me acting stupid." Where did I do that )=?

Originally Posted by Radium

Oh and I also think the Fawriel character in the comic could evolve too.

Oh no don't say that! HE KNOWS POKÉMON! D:

Eirrukovi listens and adapts, and that is her strength.

Funny you should say that. The way you described Eirru's style is exactly what I've been planning Fawriel to evolve into in the finale, namely the part following the last panel and the evolution displayed in it. (For the blind, he changed colors. And attitudes for that matter. I figured it'd be as good a time as any to change the color scheme of the character since green fur looks horrible unnatural and brown body and green hair is one of my favourite color combinations ever. And that it makes him look more tree-ish is just a nice bonus.)

And no, all things considered, I still don't want to keep dragging this on. I have other things to work on. If this round ties, we'll vote on the final comic.

Originally Posted by Fawriel

And no, all things considered, I still don't want to keep dragging this on. I have other things to work on. If this round ties, we'll vote on the final comic.

I think you miss my point. We kind of agreed on some rules and I don't think it's fair that you get to arbitrarily change them when you get bored =/. If we can do that then I want to arbitrarily declare that this auto-ties for six more rounds, because summer break is approaching and I need something fun to do.

I'll vote for the artist that gives me the most Johnny Walker whisky.

Just kidding, I will announce my vote soon.

Originally Posted by Fawriel

What do you mean?

You can't justify your behavior and hope us to understand. Why did you choose to be mad at Radium's behavior, which he couldn't possibly justify?

Originally Posted by Radium

The more diplomatic wording would've been "here an alternative"

"an alternative" is wrong, because it implies that more alternatives exists, which is against the definition of "alternative".

I think the rules have been kinda mangled all over the place from the get-go. We never did have the same idea of what "until a winner is decided" means anyway.

Uuuurrrrrrgh. I REALLY don't feel like dragging this on. Whatever happened to your duel with Dal anyway?
If all else fails, be prepared that I'm willing to bend the rules by seeking out people to vote for me or just forfeiting right out. I said it before and I'll say it again, I have other projects to work on.

Why did you choose to be mad at Radium's behavior, which he couldn't possibly justify?

I'm sorry, I'm still not quite sure if I understand. For one, I don't exactly "choose" to be angry at anyone... So you meant specifically the time he said he didn't want to be friends? I'm not sure if I was really calling him out on that or something like that... It was more of an example of what shaped my image of who Radium is. I think. I don't even know anymore. *rubs achy head*
It's natural to get mad at someone, and I don't blame anyone for getting mad at me, I'm just asking for forgiveness. For that matter, I don't think Radium ever apologized to me about anything (except that time he made me suicidal), so ... maybe that answers your question?

Err, i may be slow on the uptake, but is it just me, or has faw started taking the duel personally since punch #4? I am definitely noticing his posts are getting longer and longer as he rants and raves.

Actually it was probably at an earlier point. But worry not, the situation is under control now.

This topic will eat BRRRRRAAAAAIIIIIINNNNNNNSSSSSSS!!!!!!!

I just stumbled on a explanation of what sounded like our art duels. to quote:

This all came about as the result of something known as the Barr Wars. Barr Wars was a rather strange game pitting one artist's character against another artist's character in the format of comic style picture art (sometimes referred to as "zaps"). It was drawn by a number of artists for their own enjoyment. The challenge lay in one artist putting another artist's character into weird and wacky situations, while getting their own character out of whatever trouble another artist had supplied them with. The Crusade was all just for fun; to see who could outdo whom, who could taunt whom; which character would ally with which, who would double cross whom, who would throw fits first.

This sounds like what happened here, only, it seems like, the objective is slightly different.