Hello. This is a rough debate about the JCF, so please don't feel offended about my comments. They are not meant as an attack towards anyone, but to point out facts and problems in the current stage of the JCF.

I stopped posting at the JCF and only return every once and in a while to check my contest topic. I feel the forum has grown boring because it's always the same and there's hardly anything new, but some uninteresting news in "General Jazz Talk". Although posters still browse the forum and post in it daily, this forum is dead and there is no doubt that the only thing that keeps posters here is because they hope the brightness that once shined here will return to the place.

I also feel that the reasoning for the downfall of the JCF is partly the moderation and administration's fault, not because of the way they moderate the forum but because some of the changes they do are not liked by any of the community members and thus pushes them away from the forums, mostly to more interesting things.

Let's get some things straight:

Fact 1) We delight stupid posters like were they exiles. Honestly.

They make a lot of annoying and disturbing posts. They continue being stupid after being warned and even banned. And no real action is taken against it.

Let's not bring up Michael for the sake of humanity, but a more touchy child, such as Bjarni or "The Pokemaan Masta!!!11one" (or whatever he calls himself these days). Lately 'TBM' has spent a lot of time telling people off in his request not to hate his silly hobby or just plain screw off. Let's be honest:

Do most of us care of his 'Pokémon'?
Do most of us care about those disliking it?
Do we want to see debates about any of the above questions?

For Christ's sake, please don't use the forum as a tool for some boring political war between (subject) and (people against it).

Okay, I realize that we could also just not care of these posts and not read it. Also realize that we could just stop caring of the actual JCF, like I did, because when nothing is set up to stop this kind of rooting, it spreads.

Fact 2) Lack of new blood to the veins kills the heart, aka the JCF.

Seriously, everything interesting today is categorized "Misc". The Miscellaneous Stuff is where it snows, it's where it happens. Because of this, the forum category itself has turned into a chaos of love and war. There is everything from forum games, to sex and to spam. I think I spend 7 hours cleaning my room yesterday, and jesus that mess was nothing in comparison to such a forum.

May I honestly suggest the ideal of sub-forums? Like:

A) Forum games
B) Polls
C) Discussions

Ect..

Another thing that plain bugs me is how 'Clan Talk' really is 'Clan Announcements'. You can anything but talk about your clan. As soon as discussion grow personal and intensive about your clan, they get locked because only announcements such as 'Clan STUPID is seeking clan war' or 'Clan STUPID lost (OMG!! 8[) and is now being DISBANDED'. I remember there being political discussions. I mean, that's the ideal about having a universal discussion forum for clans if they can't discuss their problems with others universally?

Fact 3) Nobody really cares about posting more because there is no REWARD in it.

Like rank or custom titles. Almost every forum I've seen has one or another sort of rank and reward for raising your post count, but here we don't even have a post count. It was cool to do a lot of reviews on J2Online because your reviewer rank grew, it was cool to post on JCF and actively join debates because you grew in post count and could thus take place in.. erh.. history books or something.

The fact is, it attracts people. I think we removed post count due to spam? At least the JCF was interesting and fun to post on at that time.

I beg you pardon, but PLEASE consider doing some drastic changes so that we can make these forums more worthwhile posting in. This ISN'T a "JJ2 IS GOING TO DIE IN SEVEN DAYS, HAHAHA!!! (the ring)" topic, but suggestion and summary topic.

/end ultimately rant

Well, this was a complaint with some good reasoning for once. I agree. Especially with the first and second point.
Actually, some quite interesting things have been happening in JJ2 related forums... a promising fangame is being made, things about JJA and things. You know. All that jazz.

I think (hope) I'll respond in detail later.. I would start by suggesting a thing that can immediately improve things already without forum/rules changes: start an interesting thread in misc about a subject you like/that will attract intelligent debate/etc. Or a funny thread. At moments things are especially bad (with all these TBM attack threads for example) the best antidote is to post something intelligent.

I think the 3rd suggestion relates to J2O some too. We barely get any reviews now (people have to ASK other people if they at least want one review on their level) because barely anyone wants to review when they don't get anything out of it.

I remember when we had the status stuff like "l33t reviewer" and "I might as well work here" I was determined to review a lot to increase my rating.

In my opinion, having short reviews is better than having none at all.

On the topic of JCF, I think its just in a pit right now. In other words, sometimes it has its peaks, sometimes it has its downfalls, sometimes it has its inactivity. Maybe give it some time and it'll get better I guess.

I like the argument all the way at the end. We should have sub forums. Post count should be shown, ranks brought, etc...

How big is your room, 7 hours to clean it?!?!?!?!

1. I don't think it would be fair to close threads because a majority of people dislike them. All threads should be allowed as long as they follow whatever basic content rules are in place. The recent TBM threads were closed because of fighting that ensued, which was not the fault of the original poster. Rather than closing threads, I think it would be more effective and fair to delete\edit the posts that ruin these threads (trolling, etc.)

2. Subforums might work, but the categories would have to be chosen carefully and would have to be quite comprehensive. Your example list doesn't seem like it would work well. Also, wouldn't there still always be a "Misc" category? And what would happen to all the existing threads if we added subforums?

3. I don't think we've ever had post counts at the JCF, and I'm sure you agree that it was better in the past. I think the decline in quality has more to do with the members changing (joining, leaving, getting older, etc.) than it has to do with moderation styles or post counts. The JCF structure has been basically the same for the past four years; the only changes have been in the people who visit it.

This isn't to say that the administration can't do something about it, but I don't believe ranks would be a magic bullet. I think if we implement a policy that reflects the styles and desires of the member base, rather than the current JMMB-esque policy, it would improve the overall quality of the message board.

Take this as my personal opinion, not that of the administration.
-
We are currently in the midst of drafting new rules\policies for the JCF, and this is the kind of input that can help us. If people have constructive criticism (not whining or complaining), by all means post it here or talk to an administrator.

And I agree with FQuist that you should post something interesting for discussion if you want to immediately help improve the board. The current policy may not be sufficiently effective against the bad kinds of posts, but there is certainly nothing preventing people from posting good things.

Actually reviewing ranks are already in works, as far as I know.

I wouldn't do post count ranks though.

I post something because I like to post, and maybe something does interest me.

If a thread isn't interesting to me I don't post in it.

Other than that, I agree with Link.

EDIT:

Something I forgot about reviews.

Everybody who thinks there are too less reviews, have you ever thought about MAKING REVIEWS YOURSELF THEN?

Originally Posted by LittleFreak

Everybody who thinks there are too less reviews, have you ever thought about MAKING REVIEWS YOURSELF THEN?

Yes, but then I realised I had better things to do.

In fact, without kidding, TBM is one of the few users that actually post really good topics. The problem is that he usually splits his topic in several others, so along to a perfectly normal thread about which moveset to give to a pokémon topics like "Stop hating pokemon " are opened, but I think those topics are still a lot better than the completely random and stupid topics Spaztic, EvilMike and Trafton like to post (or post in) every now and then. Really, what other purpose than raising your somewhat-invisible postcount does a topic like "Sword Assocation" or "Latoya Jackson" serve? If I recall correctly, we have had a "Comedy Cafe" forum for more than 2 years now. "Sword Association" and similiar topics obviously are meant to be funny, so that's where they belong.
I have long had the wish for a seperate "Discussion" and "Off-topic" forum, so one could easily distinguish the trivial birthday, post-your-desktop, favourite movie and alike threads and the threads that were made to get some serious input, like TBM's pokémon moveset topic. While we're at it, make a clear list of forum rules too, so people like me would actually know where the line is drawn and what belongs where. At the moment I usually feel like "I'm not sure if it's allowed but I'll just post it and see if it gets edited".
I think the JJ2 talk is stretched over too many forums. Lots of topics in General JJ2 talk could be posted in JCS talk too, and vice versa. Both forums could probably be merged. The tournament and clan forums could also easily be merged into a "Online JJ2 gaming" forum, since both forums are really inactive and are about, indeed, online JJ2 gaming. More forums could be merged, but I guess it has to be discussed a little more extensively. Anyway, I think it's clear, I also think the JCF could really use some improvement.

Originally Posted by Blackraptor

Yes, but then I realised I had better things to do.

Then don't complain about too less reviews. (this may sound harsh, but it's actually the truth)

Subforums don't really work too well. Just because there's a subforum for something dosn't mean people will talk about it.

Suggestion: expansion of the forums into more than just Jazz. I.e., make the forum officially a Jazz and a non-Jazz forum. Human nature has taught me that as long as you put reassuring labels on it (e.g. 'organic food', 'don't panic', 'buy one get one free', 'no-one has any intention of building a wall around Berlin'), ppl will calm down and end their quarrels. ;P Aaaaaaaaalthough I suspect that it will take more than a new title for JCF to "save" it.

EDIT: After seeing my post and bashing my head for its apparent silliness, I've decied to add a second suggestion and that is that I will try and come up with something vaguely funny to brighten up all your life AND post it here on the forums. Ahem. ;P Deal?

Originally Posted by LittleFreak

Then don't complain about too less reviews. (this may sound harsh, but it's actually the truth)

Ok, I'll just not upload anything then

Flashman, the Sword Association and Latoya Jackson topics are hardly meant to raise post counts. They are funny. As in, comedy. Just loosen up, for heaven's sake.

Moreover,

Originally Posted by White Rabbit

(e.g. 'organic food', 'don't panic', 'buy one get one free', 'no-one has any intention of building a wall around Berlin')

Gweeh! ^_______^

Originally Posted by Blackraptor

Ok, I'll just not upload anything then

>.<

Forget what I said. :P

Once you upload SP stuff you'll get a review from me, though I can't help you with MP stuff.

Originally Posted by Fawriel

Flashman, the Sword Association and Latoya Jackson topics are hardly meant to raise post counts. They are funny. As in, comedy. Just loosen up, for heaven's sake.

Moreover,

Gweeh! ^_______^

Originally Posted by Myself

If I recall correctly, we have had a "Comedy Cafe" forum for more than 2 years now. "Sword Association" and similiar topics obviously are meant to be funny, so that's where they belong.

gg And do you agree with me that the "they are funny" in your post should be changed into "they are meant to be funny"? Not everyone finds random nonsense funny.

Well, there's a difference between "fun" and "funny". Putting something into the Comedy Cafe practically puts a "this is funny"-tag on a thread, which automatically takes some of the "surprise" effect which makes things funny in the first place. Nonsense threads like the Latoya Jackson one live from acting like they were not supposed to be funny. Putting them into the Comedy Cafe would be counterproductive.
And Sword Association wasn't "funny", either, but fun. The difference is that there is no pre-programmed joke or anything anywhere, but you can feel free to mess around, as long as, in this case, it has anything to do with swords.

@Fawriel: But it's not always like that. It doesn't really matter, you see, if a thread has been labelled 'comedy' if the contents are good. Ppl go to comedy clubs, knowing that they will get comedy and not being surprised at all about it (unless they went to the wron club ).

Well, that's a different thing. People who go into comedy clubs go there, loosen up and wait for the humor to begin. And comedians are ( hopefully ) funnier than most of us anyway.
In the JCF, some teenaged person looks through the list of new threads:
"..hrm.. "GIVE ME JJ3!", "What good moveset would you give whatshisface".... oh. A comedy thread. WOnderful. *click* ... "Why did the elephant color his toenails red? TO hide in the cherry tree!" ....................."

It's not easy to explain the concept of what is funny and what is not.

Because "funny" isn't the same for everyone. But OFFTOPIC ALERT!

Not really. MB said that the JCF was getting boring, so discussion about fun isn't offtopic, I guess.

Originally Posted by White Rabbit

...I will try and come up with something vaguely funny to brighten up all your life AND post it here on the forums. Ahem. ;P Deal?

Find the thing that may or may not brigthen up your life here.

the way this thread has been dragged off topic and mainly consists of unrelated conversations between people that could be handled with private messages is the reason why the JCF sucks right now.

Too many of you are part of the problem. Stop it. If you are going to post something off topic, AT LEAST also contain something in your post that is on topic.

For that matter, learn how to stay on topic. It hurts to read threads like this. If you want to improve this place, take the first step and try making things better for yourselves. Don't rely on magical features like postcounts to fix things.

The problem is not a lack of posts or a lack of new content. The problem is that most of the posts are crap.

Contribute to threads. Don't post stupid questions. Use private messages. Don't have dumb little conversations about level reviews.

I will close this by saying that I make my stupid nonsense threads because misc stuff is so dumb that I feel the only real way to post there is to out-dumb everyone else, either by parodying/mocking people or just being outright random.

As for spaztic, trafton, and iced, they copy me because they want to look cool and be part of the #jj2 in-crowd that I started, really.

I honestly don't post topics on Comedy Cafe because I think they're going to be funny and a big hit. I just don't care. I enjoy watching people get angry at my threads just because they don't understand what the hell I'm talking about. So complain away, because my reign of terror has only begun.

Originally Posted by EvilMike

(...) For that matter, learn how to stay on topic. (...)

x7?

So actually we should cease replying to other replies but instead only reply to the topics starting post? I don't think topics would last long.

Anyway, posting really stupid stuff just to be more stupid than other posts is pretty... stupid, just like contradicting yourself 8)

The problem is that most of the posts are crap.

I make my stupid nonsense threads

There's a difference between contributing to a conversation and posting stuff like this.

Originally Posted by Tubz

Just wondering, and I'm going to post this here, since tihs is the active topic. How long before I lose the formerly title?

Also it appears as if the sarcasm in my previous post, particualry towards the end, was missed. I make those threads because some people find them funny. I see that as a positive thing.

If you don't find them funny, oh well. I'll gladly stop it if enough people want. I try to keep such behaviour within theads though, so I don't see what the big problem is. And when I do act silly/dumb in other peoples threads, at least I do it in a way meant to be funny in the context of the thread, as opposed to just randomly spamming unrelated images or something.

The important thing for people to realize is that if their post does not suit the thread, it does not belong in the thread. That is something the JCF seems to have a problem with at the moment, and I feel changing that is important. I label anything offtopic as anything that does not suit the conversation, and stuff that is vastly different from how the thread started (without good reason).

For example, the reason this post is not off topic is because I am writing it with the whole "improving the jcf" idea in mind. This is not a direct reply to the original post, but it still suits the discussion at hand. Conversely, the little 1 on 1 conversation blackraptor and littlefreak had was pointless and could have been handled elsewhere.

I've seen too many threads on this forum be derailed and pretty much destroyed through off topic posting. If anyone ever feels like starting up a new conversation, we have a bunch of these buttons for that exact reason.


I apologise if my naming of people offends anyone. I am merely using examples that are conveniently available within this thread.

That makes sense, Mike. If people want to act stupid, keep it inside the borders. Don't try to ruin other people's fun with your crap unless they go inside your borders. It's simple.

Originally Posted by EvilMike

There's a difference between contributing to a conversation and posting stuff like this.



Also it appears as if the sarcasm in my previous post, particualry towards the end, was missed. I make those threads because some people find them funny. I see that as a positive thing.

If you don't find them funny, oh well. I'll gladly stop it if enough people want. I try to keep such behaviour within theads though, so I don't see what the big problem is. And when I do act silly/dumb in other peoples threads, at least I do it in a way meant to be funny in the context of the thread, as opposed to just randomly spamming unrelated images or something.

The important thing for people to realize is that if their post does not suit the thread, it does not belong in the thread. That is something the JCF seems to have a problem with at the moment, and I feel changing that is important. I label anything offtopic as anything that does not suit the conversation, and stuff that is vastly different from how the thread started (without good reason).

For example, the reason this post is not off topic is because I am writing it with the whole "improving the jcf" idea in mind. This is not a direct reply to the original post, but it still suits the discussion at hand. Conversely, the little 1 on 1 conversation blackraptor and littlefreak had was pointless and could have been handled elsewhere.

I've seen too many threads on this forum be derailed and pretty much destroyed through off topic posting. If anyone ever feels like starting up a new conversation, we have a bunch of these buttons for that exact reason.


I apologise if my naming of people offends anyone. I am merely using examples that are conveniently available within this thread.

I already knew it was offtopic. Duh, it does not take a genius to figure that out. I did that on purpose because the real topic hasn't been active in a while.

Stop asking people to hack your polls and forum topics and stuff for you. The same goes for Trafton and anyone else who wants to do this. And whoever is agreeing to do this, why are you doing this?

Derby: Flame tag removal. Avoid coaxing others into fighting you.

Evilmike asked nobody to hack his poll. And the motive you mention now about posting was different than before. Start a new thread next time. A thread being inactive is no reason for posting offtopic messages.

Originally Posted by Tubz

I already knew it was offtopic. Duh, it does not take a genius to figure that out. I did that on purpose because the real topic hasn't been active in a while.

So you think it'll help the 'real topic' by posting something totally irrelevant? What EvilMike wrote is partly what I meant with my first fact and we can thank you for proving his points.

The main problem with these forums is because nobody really gives a crap about the original purpose of the JCF, which in case you forgot, is Jazz Jackrabbit 2. The game is now almost 7 years old. Nobody wants to talk about it anymore. So, the forum is struggling to find something else to talk about. A great forum can only be great if the people have direction and a common interest. Now that JJ2 is no longer an interest of the people, everybody is divided. Personally, I like to talk about sports and music. The forum has not adapted. The structure of the forum is still that of a forum in which people are inclined to talk mostly about JJ2. The people have their own different interests, but it is all a part of Miscellaneous Stuff. Two or three people will say something about their own personal interests. Then everybody else joins in and, well, expresses their disinterest on the topic. Nobody ends up talking about what they like to talk about because it ends up in a pointless argument over why something is stupid or not. We could have hundreds more active posters if they weren't disencouraged by the veteran members of the JCF. We should be mature and encourage people to talk about whatever they want to, no matter what it is. Eventually, the JCF might develop into a board not about any one specific thing, but about everything. I'm sure many of us have dreamt of the JCF community developing and growing out of being a mid-small size community which it has been for its entire life. It will never grow with its main focus being JJ2, only shrink. The game is not getting more entertaining, it's getting less. That's being reflected in the forums. To improve, it must expand, and we have to be very open to this expansion.

Originally Posted by KRSplat

The main problem with these forums is because nobody really gives a crap about the original purpose of the JCF, which in case you forgot, is Jazz Jackrabbit 2. The game is now almost 7 years old. Nobody wants to talk about it anymore.

Hey, look what I found!

Two or three people will say something about their own personal interests. Then everybody else joins in and, well, expresses their disinterest on the topic. Nobody ends up talking about what they like to talk about because it ends up in a pointless argument over why something is stupid or not.

Want a proof?

http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showthread.php?t=12600

Read some of the posts here.

Of the three threads that have been posted in today in General Jazz Talk, none of them is actually about JJ2. One's about the names of the least important planets in JJ1. One is a quiz about BlurredD. The last is another complaint about nobody playing JJ2.

This may be confusing. But thinking isn't an interest. This isn't a thread about an interest, this is a conceptual thread. There are no forums specifically about thinking for people who like to think about things.

Originally Posted by KRSplat

Of the three threads that have been posted in today in General Jazz Talk, none of them is actually about JJ2. One's about the names of the least important planets in JJ1. One is a quiz about BlurredD. The last is another complaint about nobody playing JJ2.

This may be confusing. But thinking isn't an interest. This isn't a thread about an interest, this is a conceptual thread. There are no forums specifically about thinking for people who like to think about things.

General Jazz Talk
General talk about Jazz Jackrabbit (2) and the community that surrounds it

All those threads are totally right and there's no law against them.

Originally Posted by KRSplat

Of the three threads that have been posted in today in General Jazz Talk, none of them is actually about JJ2. One's about the names of the least important planets in JJ1.

That's what annoyed me in description of General Jazz Talk, "General talk about Jazz Jackrabbit (2)". 2? So we should keep JJ1 questions and information for ourselves? Or should we post that in misc? I demand description fix.

Originally Posted by KRSplat

One is a quiz about BlurredD.

..."and the community that surrounds it". Last time I checked, blur was a part of the community.

Originally Posted by KRSplat

The last is another complaint about nobody playing JJ2.

Authors of threads like that should get a BAN in their face.

@KRSplat: I started that thread not because I wanted a discussion, but because the community just happens to be very knowledgeable about JJ1. What better place to ask a question, that has an answer I find important, about a JJ game than here, at the JCF? I'm actually using the JCF for something useful and there's nothing wrong with that. Besides, what's wrong with JJ1? Just because it's even older and even less played doesn't meant that we should forget JJ2's prequel, does it?

Originally Posted by Cooba

That's what annoyed me in description of General Jazz Talk, "General talk about Jazz Jackrabbit (2)". 2? So we should keep JJ1 questions and information for ourselves? Or should we post that in misc? I demand description fix...."

The "(2)" clarifies that the sequel may also be discussed. It does not clarify that only the sequel may be discussed. The name of the forum corroborates this.

I never said there was anything wrong with posting about JJ1 or posting about BlurredD. I just said that they weren't about JJ2. I agree that those topics are relevant, but the main focus of the JCF is to talk about JJ2. I was pointing out that none of those posts were about JJ2. I agree that the posts belong in General Jazz Talk. But my point is that not many people are talking about JJ2.

@KRSplat: You're ignoring Derby. This is clearly the Jazz Jackrabbit Community Forums, not the Jazz Jackrabbit 2 Communi...and so on.